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Post by thomasam on Feb 11, 2022 16:38:16 GMT
Well it looks like the inevitable has happened, with the DH coming to the NL. In the short-term it seems to help the team, though really it's impossible to know what teams will do and who gains an advantage. My question is more about what the group thinks about it. Does it make the game better by taking out the weak-hitting pitcher for a real hitter? Does it make the game worse with less strategy and a move from pure baseball? I seem to see a generational difference in opinion, but that's very unscientific. I have my thoughts but wanted to see how everyone else felt.
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Post by CMF on Feb 11, 2022 20:20:12 GMT
I am in favor of it and think it should have happened a few years ago. For years I liked the idea of the pitcher hitting in the NL but I have come to change my opinion. I no longer want to see a pitcher at the plate, swinging away with very little chance of making contact or worse again, possible getting hurt on a swing as Jake did or running the bases like Chien-Ming Wang. Pitchers are being paid outrageous amounts of money to pitch and I would want to protect my invest as much as possible if I was an owner. I want to see the game's best pitchers on the mound, not in the batter's box.
I understand some people still like the idea of the strategy and game planning needed with a pitcher hitting but honestly, more and more I don't think managers today are capable of thinking that far ahead.
There are two leagues in MLB, but both play under the banner of MLB. I want to see the rules the same in both leagues.
That's my two cents.
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Post by nyf on Feb 13, 2022 22:00:39 GMT
I'd still rather see the AL give up the DH, but I filed that under "never going to happen" a long time ago. I'm less against it that I was 5-10 years ago, but I still believe if 8 of the players have to have talent on both sides, then it should be 9 of 9. Ray Ordonez would have been a perennial all-star if he didn't have to hit, but that's not the game of baseball.
I think having no DH is a major disadvantage for the NL when they go to AL home during the WS, so balancing the rules makes it more fair in the end.
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Post by thomasam on Feb 15, 2022 19:22:24 GMT
I think having no DH is a major disadvantage for the NL when they go to AL home during the WS, so balancing the rules makes it more fair in the end. It's tricky where the advantage lies. Most NL teams have a couple of extra quality hitters that play corner positions that can DH, and if nothing else the NL pitchers have a LITTLE more experience hitting for the games in the NL. I'm sure it's possible to look up the NL DH stats in World Series games and now I'm interested. |
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Post by thomasam on Feb 15, 2022 19:27:33 GMT
I don't like it at all but I'm resigned to it happening. I think everyone should play both sides, and that goes for the hitters also. Teams should have to find a spot in the field (and suffer the defensive consequences) if they have a good hitter. Just having someone step up to the plate 4-5 times a game isn't truly baseball to me.
On the other hand I still like the strategy of thinking ahead about when the pitcher is coming up for pitching changes, and if you want to hit for a pitcher in scoring opportunities. It's just an inherent part of baseball strategy to me. There's even the small side note that if a pitcher throws at someone he should have to bat and answer to it later on (if he's still in). It's just a natural balance all around.
I know a lot of Mets fans are happy because it gives a short-term advantage in 2022 but who knows if that'll really hold up. Maybe the Braves or Phillies sign Cruz or another big-time DH and that advantage is gone. No matter what I never like short-term "gains" like that at the expense of changing the way the game is played.
Either way though, it's here.
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Post by saxon on Feb 15, 2022 21:16:23 GMT
I think that it should have happened years ago, once Interleague play became a substantial part of the schedule. 99 % of today's pitchers probably couldn't even hit High School pitching anymore...they are a joke and screw up the offense...
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Post by nyf on Feb 16, 2022 0:06:25 GMT
I think you defeated your own argument Thomas. If the Braves or Phillies have to bring in a DH specialist like Cruz, then not having a DH specialist is a disadvantage.
As good as your bench corner guy might be, he's not someone you hired SOLELY for his ability to hit above average. Imagine the Cubs vs Mets if they had Schwarber not in RF where he was a gift waiting to happen again and again. Some guys are just meant to DH...
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Post by thomasam on Feb 16, 2022 16:01:19 GMT
I think you defeated your own argument Thomas. If the Braves or Phillies have to bring in a DH specialist like Cruz, then not having a DH specialist is a disadvantage. As good as your bench corner guy might be, he's not someone you hired SOLELY for his ability to hit above average. Imagine the Cubs vs Mets if they had Schwarber not in RF where he was a gift waiting to happen again and again. Some guys are just meant to DH... Yeah I agree, but I do wonder what the actual empirical difference is between the DH performance in interleague play. I know what you're saying about the contradiction, but I'm just saying that our bad-fielding defacto DH might not be as big of an advantage as many fans are making it out to be. Is Smith that much better than the weak fielding option our rivals might add? It's tough to say if it's going to truly be a team advantage. |
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Post by brianstark on Mar 2, 2022 2:50:54 GMT
I've never been a fan of the DH, but it was coming and inevitable. It's a part of the game in every other area, from tee ball to the majors now, so unfortunately we are going to have to get used to it.
2020 with it was not horrible, so I'm grudgingly accepting it.
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Post by saxon on Mar 4, 2022 20:11:16 GMT
now that there is no need to replace pitchers with pinch hitters, and pinch hitters with pitchers; maybe it's time to cap how many pitchers are on a roster...make it like 1968 again, no more than 8 pitchers on a MLB roster at a time.
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Post by brianstark on Mar 13, 2022 1:12:59 GMT
I don't know about 8, pitchers are not lengthened out young as they used to be.
10 on a 25 man roster? I could go for that.
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Post by saxon on Mar 24, 2022 17:27:28 GMT
Report: 'Ohtani rule' among potential '22 changes
Nick Aguilera
March 22nd, 2022
According to a report in the New York Post, MLB and the MLBPA have reached an agreement to implement a handful of rule adjustments for the 2022 season and, in some cases, beyond. The agreement is pending approval by the owners of the 30 MLB clubs.
Perhaps the most notable change, and one that is set to last for the life of the five-year CBA, is a nod to Shohei Ohtani, and coincides with the implementation of the designated hitter in both leagues.
The proposed new rule says that if the starting pitcher is also in the lineup as the DH, then that player can remain as the DH even if he is removed as a pitcher. In the past, if the starting pitcher in the AL was also in the lineup, the DH was forfeited, and his spot in the order was occupied by the relief pitcher when he left the game.
Under the proposed rule, Ohtani -- or any other pitcher -- can serve as both the starting pitcher and DH in a given game, and if he is removed as a pitcher after a few innings he gets to stay in the lineup as the DH. This rule tweak was used in the 2021 All-Star Game to allow Ohtani to stay in the game as a DH even though he was also the starting pitcher, and could encourage more two-way players down the line.
For the 2022 season only, the agreement includes expanded rosters for the first month of the season and the return of automatic runners at second base during extra innings.
The expanded rosters for April are a response to the shortened Spring Training as a result of the collective bargaining negotiations. Per the agreement, teams will be allotted two extra roster spots (28 in total) to start the year. This will allow players, especially pitchers, to use the first few weeks of the season to get up to speed, and there will be no roster limits on pitchers during this period. Rosters will return to 26 players on May 2, and teams will not be allowed to have more than 13 pitchers on their rosters once they revert.
The automatic runner on second base in extra innings will return for the entirety of the 2022 season, but not beyond. A runner will be placed at second base during the start of each half inning, which is meant to speed up the pace of play by creating instant run-scoring opportunities during those extra frames. This rule was introduced during the pandemic-shortened 2020 season and rolled over into the 2021 season.
Additionally, seven-inning doubleheaders will now be a thing of the past, as MLB will revert to traditional nine-inning twin bills. The shortened games were introduced as part of the health and safety protocols in 2020.
Owners will vote on the proposed rule changes next week. A simple majority of the league’s 30 owners is required to pass the amendments.
Nick Aguilera is a reporter for MLB.com. Follow him on Twitter @bynickaguilera.
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Post by nyf on Mar 24, 2022 18:40:17 GMT
I think this is a good rule change - but personally, I'd have liked to see the rule changed to "you may use a DH to replace 1 active hitting from your 9 person lineup". Why does it HAVE to be for your pitcher? IE: If you have an Ohtani, then you should be able to DH for say your light hitting SS.
More importantly - they buried the lead. UGH they are bringing back the runner on 2nd for 2022. That IMO is one of the WORST rule additions I've ever seen in professional sports.
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Post by nyf on Mar 26, 2022 19:15:20 GMT
Ron is griping about the Othani rule for the second broadcast in a row. Not sure I agree with him here.
He has a legit argument that rule changes shouldn't be made for 1 player, but the counter argument, and one I agree with, is you shouldn't be penalized because you have the best hitting pitcher in baseball.
I still endorse my idea for taking it away from must be pitcher, and allow you to replace any 1 hitter of your choice.
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Post by saxon on Mar 27, 2022 0:08:16 GMT
Ron is griping about the Othani rule for the second broadcast in a row. Not sure I agree with him here. He has a legit argument that rule changes shouldn't be made for 1 player, but the counter argument, and one I agree with, is you shouldn't be penalized because you have the best hitting pitcher in baseball. I still endorse my idea for taking it away from must be pitcher, and allow you to replace any 1 hitter of your choice. That's part of what drives me crazy when Keith isn't in the booth. Ron and Gary will find something to whine about and won't stop their crying into the microphone... usually it's Gary's griping about a challenge taking too long, blah blah (Gary thinks he's tim McCarver) blah blah |
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