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Post by thomasam on Nov 29, 2022 22:03:54 GMT
With Abreu off the board the DH options are slim. I'm not convinced Abreu would've thrived here since he's always been in a good hitters' park but it would've been a nice luxury. Now you're looking at Cruz or Martinez (and maybe Voit) as the only real remaining power-hitting DH free agents.
The team line is currently that the three rookies will rotate at the DH spot while not playing the field which might not be a bad idea. It eases them into the league a little and keeps the bats in the lineup during off days. What are everyone's thoughts on the DH situation?
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Post by nyf on Nov 30, 2022 15:38:06 GMT
Nelson Cruz is toast. No thank you. JD Martinez is toast. No thank you. (wow, love the unexpected symmetry there). Completely disappeared the 2nd half and is a big reason Sox fell out of contention. Luke Voit an upgrade? No thank you. (forced the symmetry - guilty haha). Question is whether giving him 2-3 million minimum will even be an upgrade to the crap we already have? I'd rather spend that money in the pen.
If they don't sign Nimmo - Baty will play the field, so that leaves Vogglebach as the lefty DH platoon option. If they do sign Nimmo, Vientos or Vogglebach becomes trade bait. I just can't see them carrying all three rookies with Vogglebach, none of which play the OF or offer position versatility (granted they have Guillorme and Escobar for that in the IF). Does that mean a Ruf/McCann move?
My guess, at this point, they have too many other areas to spend the money, they go internal for DH. Lots of Vogglebach against righties, which leaves little time for the rookies.
Side note: Alverez, IMO needs to catch. Maybe not every day, but 50 games as the backup? He's the catcher of the future and won't improve the defensive aspects by sitting on the bench. 50 games catching, 50 games DHing. 60 games on the bench. That should give us a good picture of who this kid is. McCann is the only obstacle there, which means to keep Alverez up, you need to trade McCann.
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Post by saxon on Nov 30, 2022 17:11:54 GMT
I still can't believe that we are stuck with Ruf, Vogelbus and McCann...3 wasted roster spots for veterans with limited output...
IMO, Ruf/Vogelbus reek of a Sandy Alderson move...guys with no defensive skills or speed, that can hit the ball far occasionally and like to take a lot of pitches...
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Post by saxon on Nov 30, 2022 17:16:41 GMT
The fact that they moved Sherlock to catching coach instead of bench coach suggests to me that Alvarez is likely going to be doing a fair share of catching with Sherlock being his personal coach...
Also suggests to me that if we can't unload McCann/Ruf, that they will be spending a decent amount of time at first base vs LHP with Alonso being the DH on those days to keep his legs fresh...with Vogelbus getting a good amount of DH time vs RHP...
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Post by saxon on Nov 30, 2022 17:25:48 GMT
and on top of that...we have 3 MLB ready guys for third base: Escobar; Baty and Vientos...how do that split that time? Does Baty get a good amount of time there? Does Vientos split time between LF/3B/1B/DH? Does Escobar shuffle around the infield?
While Escobar played almost entirely at 3B last season for the Mets (solid defensively, even if his bat didn't warrant starting 3B role); Escobar has played ALL 9 defensive positions in his career: 3B: 5899 innings; SS: 2551 innings; 2B: 908 innings; All 3 OF positions: 275 innings; 1B: 126 innings; and a couple innings combined at pitcher and catcher (really curious about the catching experience, what was the reason? by the way it was in 2017 with the Twins)
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Post by saxon on Nov 30, 2022 17:28:35 GMT
IMO, the only offensive player that I think that we might add other than guys already on the 40 man roster is someone that can play either CF or RF...
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Post by saxon on Nov 30, 2022 17:32:29 GMT
with the 26 man roster crunch, I can see why non-tendering Dom Smith made sense...he's just redundant of Vogelbus with less MLB success
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Post by thomasam on Nov 30, 2022 20:29:11 GMT
Side note: Alverez, IMO needs to catch. Maybe not every day, but 50 games as the backup? He's the catcher of the future and won't improve the defensive aspects by sitting on the bench. 50 games catching, 50 games DHing. 60 games on the bench. That should give us a good picture of who this kid is. McCann is the only obstacle there, which means to keep Alverez up, you need to trade McCann. This is why I think they keep DH internal. Houston giving Abreu three years closed that door and the other two I agree are done. McCutchen is a different kind of hitter than the other two power-only guys but doesn't have much left either. It doesn't feel like Vientos has a long-term spot on this roster since he's a pure DH with a serious propensity for strikeouts. The other two though feel perfect for a part-time DH role to keep the bats in the lineup but ease them into the field. The Alvarez situation you outline here just feels right and could work for Baty and Escobar splitting time also.
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Post by thomasam on Nov 30, 2022 20:30:31 GMT
with the 26 man roster crunch, I can see why non-tendering Dom Smith made sense...he's just redundant of Vogelbus with less MLB success Yeah there really were too many of those guys on the roster. No flexibility so it became redundancy. I'm also not sold on the idea that Dom will suddenly blossom with more playing time. That hole in his swing is just too big.
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Post by saxon on Nov 30, 2022 21:26:15 GMT
Side note: Alverez, IMO needs to catch. Maybe not every day, but 50 games as the backup? He's the catcher of the future and won't improve the defensive aspects by sitting on the bench. 50 games catching, 50 games DHing. 60 games on the bench. That should give us a good picture of who this kid is. McCann is the only obstacle there, which means to keep Alverez up, you need to trade McCann. This is why I think they keep DH internal. Houston giving Abreu three years closed that door and the other two I agree are done. McCutchen is a different kind of hitter than the other two power-only guys but doesn't have much left either. It doesn't feel like Vientos has a long-term spot on this roster since he's a pure DH with a serious propensity for strikeouts. The other two though feel perfect for a part-time DH role to keep the bats in the lineup but ease them into the field. The Alvarez situation you outline here just feels right and could work for Baty and Escobar splitting time also. I don't think that in today's game, that Vientos's strikeouts are a frowned upon as they would have been back in the Keith Hernandez era of baseball...Mets had 4 players with 116+ strikeouts and an additional 2 with 97 strikeouts in 2022...Lindor had 136, Alonso had 128, Escobar had 129 and Nimmo had 116 (which is well below Nimmo's normal K rate, prior to 2022, Nimmo was averaging 146 K's per 162 games)
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Post by nyf on Nov 30, 2022 22:22:00 GMT
only excused if it comes with other offensive benefits. But I agree, if he can reproduce his AAA numbers at the MLB level, then the K's will be forgiven. The more I think about it, the more I really really hate the idea of splitting the DH between this larger crew. Let's assume every position in the field is taken, so these 3 rookies (and Vogelbach) need to share DH ABs... Spring Training competition - let the best man win! Platooning RH bats in against lefties only is a sure fire way to JD Davis the whole crew. How can you expect these kids to take the next jump if they are getting 10 ABs a week? ?
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Post by brianstark on Dec 10, 2022 14:27:39 GMT
Since we have already blown through the cap, I say go for it for real.
Right now, our lineup looks something like this:
CF Brandon Nimmo L SS Francisco Lindor S 2B Jeff McNeil L 1B Pete Alonso R 3B Eduardo Escobar S RF Starling Marte R LF Mark Canha R DH Ruf/Vogelbach -- C Francisco Alvarez R
I list it like this because I like L/R/L in a lineup. Makes it tough to pick relievers to go up after them.
Now, this DH tandem is probably better than last year's Smith/Davis combo, but not by much.
So, again if we are already going to blow by the cap anyway, my proposal is this.
Andrew Benintendi.
Not for DH, but for LF.
That would move Canha/Marte/Escobar into a rotation for the 3B/RF/DH. Keeps all three fresh.
Additional benefits: AB is only 28 and lefthanded. He's not a gold glove LF, but he's a touch above average.
Roster flexibility, lineup flexibility, balance top to bottom, and you have the option of trading one/both of Ruf/Vogelbach for something else.
Do it Omar.
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Post by nyf on Dec 12, 2022 15:57:12 GMT
The more I think about it, the more I like this change.
CF Brandon Nimmo L SS Francisco Lindor S 2B Jeff McNeil L 1B Pete Alonso R DH Eduardo Escobar S/Vogelbach (minor share of platoon) RF Starling Marte R LF Mark Canha R 3B Brett Baty L C Francisco Alvarez R
Trade Ruf for a canvas bag . Trade McCann for baseballs to put in that bag. Let's call this a day.
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Post by thomasam on Dec 12, 2022 18:53:44 GMT
The more we get into December the more I think they'll find a way to unload McCann and Ruf. McCann at least has some value as a pitch caller for the (very) experienced front end of the rotation but we all know Nido can handle it fine. That gives both Alvarez and Baty a shot at 500 AB.
They'll have to eat most or all of those two contracts but you can't have that kind of dead roster space.
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Post by CMF on Dec 13, 2022 14:13:11 GMT
Cut Ruf immediately and give some of the youngs guys a chance. We need to infuse some youth into the lineup.
McCann, if we get trade him for anything, make him the backup. As for Vogelbach...BAH! I don't see him bringing much value other than comedic.
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