|
Post by saxon on Dec 16, 2021 18:09:42 GMT
Thought about making this into a poll, but I figured freestyling it was a better idea...
When do you think that it will finally be resolved?
Will it affect when Spring Training and the season start?
What major changes to the CBA will result?
|
|
|
Post by saxon on Dec 16, 2021 18:11:34 GMT
I am hoping that it will be resolved shortly after the holidays...like no later than mid January, so that it doesn't affect ST or the season and it gives everyone time to get FA/trades completed...
|
|
|
Post by saxon on Dec 16, 2021 18:16:58 GMT
I think that the DH will become universal...hopefully that nonsense with a runner starting on 2nd in extra innings will disappear...
I don't care about a time clock, or a lot about the contract stuff...
I think that something needs to be done about how much balls/strikes vary from umpire to umpire, pitchers to pitchers, hitters to hitters, teams to teams, what part of the game/count it is...there is no consistency at all...
|
|
|
Post by saxon on Dec 16, 2021 18:18:29 GMT
I also think that there should be some sort of adjustment to roster size, and also to infield shifts...
|
|
|
Post by saxon on Dec 16, 2021 18:20:58 GMT
As far as infield shifts:
2 infielders should have to be on the left side of 2B and 2 infielders should have to be on the right side of 2B at all times...with those 4 infielders having to be no deeper than the infield grass arc...if you "choose" to employ a "shift", it should have to be done by using one of the 3 outfielders...not by putting your shortstop in short right field against left handed hitters
|
|
|
Post by saxon on Dec 16, 2021 18:34:18 GMT
as far as the rosters:
no more than 13 pitchers allowed on the roster at any time (other than an extra inning game)...
anyone under 28, can be considered part of a "taxi squad" that as long as they are on the "40 man roster" can toggle between the majors/minors without being exposed to waivers...however, once they are initially part of the major league roster, they must be paid at least the "Major league minimum" for the duration of the season...
anyone over 35, that was signed thru a "minor league deal" can also be on the taxi squad if they are kept on the "40 man roster" while being paid at least a MLB minimum salary once they were promoted initially to the major league roster...
|
|
|
Post by saxon on Dec 16, 2021 18:41:46 GMT
While I don't really care about the overall CBA rules:
I think that there should be some sort of "Tanking" penalty...if a team "sells" their players mid-season, they should receive a penalty that is comparable to the "luxury tax"...
A player's eligibility for Free Agency should be based on time that they are on the active roster...so, once a player is promoted initially to the MLB roster, the clock starts to tick...however, if a player misses significant time due to injury or suspension, they should stop accumulating time...
|
|
|
Post by nyf on Dec 16, 2021 22:32:10 GMT
wow, thats a lot to unpack When? Not for a while. I don't see this getting done until it starts causing fairweather fans to get restless. At that point, each side will have hoped to have cast the other as the villain well enough that they'd be willing to move. My guess at the least pitchers and catchers will be late, and more likely, we're going to lose games. If I were to bet, I'd take the over at 30 games missed. DH: VERY likely Extra Innings: God I hope not. Don't think the players liked it either. Computer Strikes: I don't think it's ready, and I don't think it will be a CBA thing. Shifts: Disagree. You get 7 players to put where you want. It's the hitters job to hit it where they ain't. Rosters: I also am on board for expanded rosters with a list of inactives. Like you can camp your other 4 SP and say 2 RPs on the inactive list. This way if a guy is unavailable, it won't cost you an arm. Anyone riding the inactive list is absolutely paid at the Major League Level. I don't think age should matter here. If Lugo pitched 2 days straight, you should be able to inactive him and get a fresh arm. If you want to have a 3rd catcher on there for a day after a night, thats fine. Disagree on waivers and salary. Guys can still be sent down, and if they don't have a guaranteed contract, they get minor league salary. The player benefit is that there are now more slots at the major league level which means faster service accrual time, and more time earning the MLB salary. Teams choice on how they use the slots and if they want to use it to protect a guy from waivers. Tanking Penalty: Minimum payroll, should be the fix. If you trade away all your payroll at the end of the year and drop below the minimum, you should still need to contribute that money somewhere to make up the difference. But to penalize for trades that make you worse? Definitely disagree. Teams should be able to trade away players if they are clearly not making the playoffs. It helps for future parity. FA clock: I floated this idea on the previous thread. I agree with making service time less, but that clock stops for IL and suspensions. Stay healthy, become a FA 2 year sooner. Have Tommy John? Then you'll need to hang around a bit longer (I would figure closer to the current clock). Maybe throw a cap on there at around the current Super 2 clock or age 28.5. Cheating Voids Contract: This can go both ways. If a player gets caught cheating, the team has an option to void. If a GM or Manager gets caught condoning cheating, a player whistleblower can opt out saying this is not the environment they want to be bound to.
|
|
|
Post by brianstark on Jan 9, 2022 0:32:13 GMT
OK, here's my thoughts.
DH- pretty much a done deal.
Extras- Stop the insanity, the dumbest thing to hit the game in decades.
Computer strike zone- I'd love it, but the technology is still a bit away.
Shifts- Learn to control your bat. Ted Williams faced a shift so often they named the damn thing after him. All he did was get in the Hall of Fame as possibly the best overall hitter of all time.
Rosters- I LOVE that inactive idea, nyf. Roster size would be the sticking point. 26 active, 5 inactive works for me.
Tanking penalty- solved with the payroll floor, with the penalty as nyf said. Go below the line and pay a tax up to the limit. Do it twice and start losing either International pool money or picks.
FA clock- I like the stopping service time for injury and there is no way ANYONE should get ANY benefit while on suspension, period.
Cheating- break the rules, your contract is null and void unless your team decides to give you a break. GM/Manager/other is caught either cheating in some way or knowingly allowing it to happen, loss of pick(s), perhaps lowering that team's salary cap or raising their salary floor.
I'm curious to see where the negotiations go.
|
|
|
Post by nyf on Jan 10, 2022 18:48:32 GMT
same. Haven't really heard any leaks from either side. Main word is that the two sides are not even trying to find common ground, just sticking to their talking points as if they were Moses holding the 10 commandments and the other side is nothing but rhetoric to false god and their false idols. Hard to make progress when you're not willing to listen.
|
|
|
Post by nyf on Jan 10, 2022 19:18:29 GMT
Tanking penalty- solved with the payroll floor, with the penalty as nyf said. Go below the line and pay a tax up to the limit. Do it twice and start losing either International pool money or picks. Seems were on the nearly the same wave length here with the exception for this. For clarity, I don't think there should be a penalty or a loss of picks or pool money. Set a floor, and even if your overall salary drops below that, you need to pay the difference. So you might have 50MM of talent on the field, but you're still paying 75MM (or whatever the floor may be). If they are ok paying money for nothing in return, by all means. The goal here is to allow teams to trade away players in an attempt to quickly rebuild for a a future run. Think Texas Rangers from last year who sold nearly all assets, but just spent 100s of millions this offseason retooling. No penalty there. But if your goal is solely to cut costs while you sit in a waiting pattern, well that is no longer possible, because even if you sell all high priced talent, you still need to pay up to the floor. Along that though, where would you draw the line? Here are the league's below average salaries. LEAGUE AVERAGE $127,742,064 16 Cincinnati Reds $125,902,769 17 Minnesota Twins $120,084,606 18 Colorado Rockies $116,408,966 19 Milwaukee Brewers $99,377,415 20 Texas Rangers $95,636,948 21 Arizona Diamondbacks $91,232,929 22 Oakland Athletics $90,900,598 23 Kansas City Royals $86,565,788 24 Detroit Tigers $86,348,945 25 Seattle Mariners $83,837,448 26 Tampa Bay Rays $70,836,327 27 Miami Marlins $58,157,900 28 Pittsburgh Pirates $54,356,609 29 Cleveland Indians $50,220,534 30 Baltimore Orioles $42,421,870 PS: Nerd in me is amazed that the league average and league median are so close
|
|
|
Post by thomasam on Jan 14, 2022 20:34:30 GMT
I am begrudgingly accepting the fact that the DH will be here. I think it's a blight on the game, like having a designated free throw guy would be in basketball. If you play the field you should hit. Whatever though, you can't fight it.
The extra innings thing has to go, although I'm amazed at how much better it played out than I expected. It's not baseball though...but then if you ask me it's in the same bucket as the DH.
I've been intrigued by the salary floor idea, but a simple salary floor feels wrong to me. To force a team to keep an expensive player when they have the option to trade him for prospects flies in the face of the parity the league is trying to achieve. I'd do one of two things:
1) Create a rolling salary floor over a 3 or 5 year period. Sure you can stockpile prospects but at some point you have to go for it. If you require teams to sign high-priced free agents every few years they can do so when the farm is ready to compete.
2) Combine a salary floor with a win minimum. Can you win with a $50MM payroll? Then why should you be forced to sign guys to make it to (say) $75MM? Would you force teams to overpay for the players that fit into the system ($25MM for a $5MM player)?
I don't think anything outside of the DH and service time will come out of these talks but the other points are important for the health of the game.
|
|
|
Post by nyf on Jan 14, 2022 22:26:46 GMT
I've been intrigued by the salary floor idea, but a simple salary floor feels wrong to me. To force a team to keep an expensive player when they have the option to trade him for prospects flies in the face of the parity the league is trying to achieve. I'd do one of two things: 1) Create a rolling salary floor over a 3 or 5 year period. Sure you can stockpile prospects but at some point you have to go for it. If you require teams to sign high-priced free agents every few years they can do so when the farm is ready to compete. 2) Combine a salary floor with a win minimum. Can you win with a $50MM payroll? Then why should you be forced to sign guys to make it to (say) $75MM? Would you force teams to overpay for the players that fit into the system ($25MM for a $5MM player)? I like the idea of the rolling salary floor in concept, less in reality. It makes for a really complicated tracking system. I do agree with you that if you set a 75MM floor, it is unfair to say the Rays who just won the AL East w/ 100 wins with a 70MM salary. That said, the good of the many outweigh the negative against the few. There is no reason the Orioles should have gone into 2021 with a 57MM salary. Do they need to overpay for guys? Of course not. Should they be attempting to field a team that is better than below replacement value? 100%. I think that is the goal. Go get a handful of guys in the 5-10MM range and do your best to compete. Instead they are playing a bunch of washed up prospects, and losing 110 games. Look at this roster. It's miserable.
|
|
|
Post by thomasam on Jan 21, 2022 21:44:23 GMT
Oh that's definitely a miserable roster although it does show how salary doesn't always mean value. Chris Davis was maybe the least valuable player on that team and easily had the highest salary. It's tricky with a team like Baltimore who has to hold onto draft picks and therefore is limited in the free agents they can sign. However the talent they do have is young:
Hays Mullins Mountcastle Means Rutschman Rodriguez
But yeah the trick is if those guys do work out you want Baltimore to pay them to stay and not perpetually be in a rebuilding mode. Actually you want them to pay them and add higher-priced players in their prime, making a run at a pennant when everything comes together. It's really tricky. I do agree there needs to be a floor in some form but I'm just not sure about the right way to do it.
|
|
|
Post by saxon on Jan 22, 2022 1:49:24 GMT
Oh that's definitely a miserable roster although it does show how salary doesn't always mean value. Chris Davis was maybe the least valuable player on that team and easily had the highest salary. Good point...Baltimore has spent money over the years, but they tend to spend crazy money for shitty players...They didn't get any value out of Davis or Albert Belle, and paid both of them way too much... and as long as they are in a division with Yanks, Red Sox and even the Rays, they could spend like the Dodgers and still probably come in 4th
|
|