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Post by nyf on Aug 25, 2023 17:04:57 GMT
Thought this might be interesting topic to compile everyone's thoughts on. I personally had this as a "raging debate" in my mets text group yesterday, and there seemed to be 2 underlying themes (Thomas hit them both in the chat window). Pros for Retiring: - They were all time great Mets, as far as talent
- They are iconic names to the fanbase
- They were crucial to our last championship, which is nearly 30 years ago
- They were perennial all stars/award winners in their time with the Mets
- Fans are hungry for names on the wall and these are two of the most talented Mets to wear the uniform.
Cons against Retiring - They could have been legends, and they squandered it
- Both were shells of could have been by their age 30 seasons
- Mets didn't bother to resign Straw seeing the writing on the walls (and were right as Dodgers certainly regretted the contract).
- Mets did resign Gooden, but saw him decline in 92/93 and then get suspended for most of 94 and all of 95.
- Retired Number is the highest honor a team can give, and these two fall short of earning that honor.
Curious what side everyone falls on (and other pros/cons I may have missed).
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Post by nyf on Aug 25, 2023 17:42:50 GMT
To put my own thoughts out there, I'm firming against it.
I think this is a sign of desperation. Desperation to forget this horrible 2023 season. Desperation to create a rosy history for a franchise that has historically underperformed. Desperation to pretend we have a storied history.
I put it as a bullet point, but retiring a number is the highest team honor that can be awarded. To earn it, you have to be a team legend. Daryl and Doc's legend is more dubious than accolade. Yes, they are two of the most talented Mets to ever don the uniform, but that's not enough. They also left the team in shambles in the 90s instead of set up as a star studded power house.
Lets save this highest honor for players that elevated the team rather than pissed away what could have been right in the prime of their baseball lives.
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Post by Admin on Aug 26, 2023 20:09:31 GMT
I'm still debating my opinion in my head (plus I'm working 13 hour days yesterday, today and tomorrow)...I will comment soon on this...reviewing stats, etc...
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Post by Admin on Aug 27, 2023 0:51:02 GMT
ok...upon further review, I might have changed my mind about Strawberry...
he played in an era before everyone bulked up and worried about launch angle; and he had the frame of a toothpick (so obviously he wasn't on any steroids)...
From his 2nd season, until his 8th season (first full season for 7 full seasons before hitting Free Agency): he averaged: 32 HRs; 25 doubles; 3 triples; 259 "Total Bases", 86 runs scored, 94 RBI, 25 steals, 76 walks, and 119 strikeouts (which was high in his era, but not high now...and we know that he was vulnerable to the strikeouts vs LHP and had a very big strike zone)
In his rookie season, he had a combined 29 HR; 19 doubles; 8 triples; 26 steals in 138 games (16 AAA, the rest MLB)...and those were his only AAA games...
in his age 20 season at AA ball, he just absolutely dominated: 34 HR; 19 doubles, 9 triples; 45 steals; 97 RBI and 93 Runs scored in 129 games (and also 100 walks)...
and while most players tend to not do as well after winning a world series (World series hangover?), Strawberry had probably his best overall season in 1987: 39 HRs; 32 doubles; 36 steals; 310 Total Bases; 104 RBI; 108 runs scored; 97 walks; .284/.398/.583/.981 If you combine his walks, steals and "Total Bases"; that means that he advanced himself a total of 443 bases...that is pretty impressive
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Post by thomasam on Aug 27, 2023 20:29:28 GMT
I like the idea of a "ring of honor" for those players who aren't retired number-worthy but are still important parts of franchise history. They'd both fit there but this franchise just doesn't have the history to warrant many retired numbers. Wright will get #5 retired and that should be it for the foreseeable future.
If you retire one of Strawberry or Gooden you have to retire both. Their careers are just too similar to make a case for one and not the other. They really do epitomize the 80s in so many ways.
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